Podcast #33 – Roscoe Tanner – The Mindset, Power & Lessons of a Tennis Legend

Doug Dvorak (00:00.63)
stop, it’ll need three to five minutes to process. So three, two, one. Good day, Mission Possible community. I’m gonna cut the long introduction and get right to our guest, Roscoe Tanner. Roscoe high honor and privilege to be with you here today.

Leonard Tanner (00:15.001)
Okay.

Leonard Tanner (00:21.186)
Well, shoot, it’s my honor to be here. I’m very happy, it’s fun. you’ve you’re I’ve seen some of your podcasts and they’re very interesting and it’s an honor to be in that group.

Doug Dvorak (00:31.372)
Yeah. And I only interview ’cause it’s my podcast, people that I’m interested in talking to, and you are one of them. So you’re one of the most fascinating figures in tennis history, known for your blazing serve. I watched you on the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson from whatever the seventies and I mean that was all the rage. And then in nineteen seventy seven you won the Australian Open title, with some of the most memorable

Leonard Tanner (00:38.927)
thank you.

Leonard Tanner (00:49.726)
Yeah.

Doug Dvorak (01:00.994)
battles with the greatest players of all time. So we’re gonna explore your fascinating life, your tennis journey, your personal journey, lessons learned, and life beyond the court. So Roscoe, take us back to the beginning. When did you first realize that tennis could be more than just a hobby?

Leonard Tanner (01:19.008)
Well, probably not until I was in college. because when I was in the juniors and all that, I mean, you could play Davis Cup, you could travel the world, but you really couldn’t make any money. and so it wasn’t something you were gonna and even after I left college and played the WCT tour, if you won the tournament each week, which was the biggest tournament each week, if you won the WCT tournament, you won ten thousand dollars. So it’s not like I mean and I think in the first round maybe you got seven or eight hundred thousand, seven or eight hundred dollars.

And so I think I think, you know, and we were pleased with that because also they took care of our hotel. We traveled around the world. I mean, I was extremely fortunate, was right after I turned pro, I got a call from Arthur Ash who wanted to play doubles together for the year. And so I got you know I was very blessed, very lucky with all of that, but it wasn’t something that you really were gonna retire off of. I mean, now if they lose in the last round of the qualifying, they get eighty thousand dollars.

So they didn’t even make it into the tournament. That’s what gets me. But I mean they deserve it in one sense because it’s expensive for what they’re trying to love. Those guys live out of their car, you know, when they’re in the future and all those different events. So I don’t begrudge them that, but it sure is different.

Doug Dvorak (02:19.914)
Eighty thousand dollars.

Doug Dvorak (02:39.458)
Yeah, I read an article in the Wall Street Journal about th the cost today of attending the US Open, the the you know, biggest money parse tournament on the planet, but it’s it’s it’s seems like it’s it’s edged the

you know, middle class tennis player if they want to go see the open, you know, three hundred dollars, a hundred dollars for nachos with caviar. I mean, it seems almost ridiculous now the cost to attend a US open or an Australian open.

Leonard Tanner (03:10.267)
Well and then also what you have to remember is hotels in New York during the US Open get booked up. So I mean I remember being there and we couldn’t find a hotel room for one night during Labor Day weekend. And it’s rugged. And but but you’re right. I mean those are ground passes you’re talking about. That’s not even a reserved seat. So I just it’s it’s amazing the cost of it.

it’s too bad in a sense because that means it doesn’t get exposed to some of the people you would like to expose the tournament to. But that’s the way it is. And the funny thing for me right now, G Lod Bloom, who’s a former Israeli Israeli player, is coaching an American boy who’s playing in future events over in Europe, and he’s only seventeen, and he got invited by the USTA to play in the US Open juniors.

And he’s so excited. He’s in New York right now. And he was pinching himself. He can’t believe he’s there. because when you do that, even if you lose, you have a badge for the whole week and get to go to the tournament. So he’s thrilled with it. He’s excited. I’m thrilled for him. And he’s doing really well in the tournament. So it’s great to see.

Doug Dvorak (04:24.568)
So that’s great. So you’re at Stanford. You or you recognize that, wow, I’m pretty good at this. I’m passionate about it. Maybe I should check out the pro tour and become a pro. So back then, obviously to your earlier point there wasn’t a lot of money in it, but it it sounds like, you know, you’re doing what you love, you’re traveling the world, you’re single, you’re you know, doing everything a young man could, and money really wasn’t a driver. At least that’s the vibe I’m getting from you.

Leonard Tanner (04:54.139)
Well, it wasn’t the d mean we thought we were making good money, but it wasn’t compared today. But the thing about it is that we had rankings. Back then the USTA, I was on what they called the reserve Davis Cup team. So I wasn’t on the main Davis Cup team, but I was kinda like the practice squad. A lot of the juniors had that to try to develop us for the future. So they got me in tour events. All summer I was playing tournaments.

So I had a ranking. By the time I left Stanford, I was ranked in the top 20. So it wasn’t a thing where I was leaving school to go try to qualify. I was in. And so that’s when and when I got a call from Arthur at my house that said, I want to play doubles together next year. I thought someone was joking. Arthur S. was number one in the world. But at any rate, I agreed. And I thought he was teasing me, but about two weeks later I got a letter from Lamar Hunt.

Who said he was just talking to Arthur and we’re playing doubles together and I’m just going, no, that was for real. But yeah, that owns the Kansas City Chiefs. They’re his family. And it was you know, you got to run into unbelievable people through the tennis tour when we played it because we were available, we were accessible. We’d go out to dinner and people could walk up to our table. These days that doesn’t happen.

Doug Dvorak (05:51.574)
Lamar Hunt the businessman?

Leonard Tanner (06:16.313)
They’re like a little travelling corporation and very private.

Doug Dvorak (06:19.79)
Did you get any sponsorship monies or deals back then and tell me a little bit about that?

Leonard Tanner (06:24.739)
Definitely. Well, it was when one of the first tournaments I played as a pro was in was the US Open at Forest Hills. And there was a friend of mine who was an agent and he said, you know, well let’s get you a deal with Wilson Racketts. And I’ll never forget it. And so he came back with a deal that was fifteen hundred dollars for the year. And I thought, man, that’s great. I want to get fifteen yeah for the year. But so then I ran into before I signed it, I ran into Donald Dell.

Doug Dvorak (06:47.246)
For the year.

Leonard Tanner (06:54.852)
And Donald said, don’t sign it. And so he came back, he came back with like a $10,000 contract. And I went, I went, Donald, you’re my man. But we made much more money off the court through endorsements than we made on the court.

Doug Dvorak (07:13.72)
More in endorsements than prize money. Wow.

Leonard Tanner (07:15.65)
Way more. I mean, I had a co thing with Kiowa Island where I was the touring pro for like twelve years. I had a thing with PDP rackets, which turned into Lacoque Sportif for about ten years. Then Donald got me a sock deal. I had a sock deal with SAI socks. That’s what he got deals for everything. And one of the things I was worried about would be if I have enough time to actually do the appearances for some of these things like the socks. But we worked it out.

But he got me into everything. He was an unbelievable agent. He represented most of the Americans. And one of the things that people don’t know is we had a little company called Players Enterprises. And it was basically the top ten Americans. It was Arthur Stan, Charlie Passerel, Tom Gorman, Marty Reeson, Dennis Ralston, and then you had me, Dickie Stockton, and Brian Gottfried. And we were basically all in our own little company.

And we got approached by the company that used to make rackets for heads. and they said we have another racket that’s not like the redhead, which had straight shoulders. It’s got curved shoulders, and it’s a little bit better for torque and everything else. And I was the only one in our company that had a contract up for renewal. So I signed with a company called Professionally Designed Products, PDP. So I signed with PDP, and that was one of the best things I ever did. I loved that racket.

Doug Dvorak (08:21.206)
Hmm.

Leonard Tanner (08:46.194)
And I think that’s the racket I won against the Australian. and then they just really were terrific at designing rackets because they didn’t want to give that design to Head. So they got us to form our own company. Tennis racket companies are not profitable. one of the things that’s hard if you’re like a racket company like we were, you can’t compete with Head Wilson Prince and all that stuff. They take up all the space in the stores. So what we did

We had a strategy to just go with pro shops. And we didn’t go to the big stores. And we just went to pro shops and then we serviced them. We did things to help the pros sell our rackets. And we didn’t sell it to the discount places. So they loved us. So we did okay, but it wasn’t like a big moneymaker or anything like that. But it was fun. So we enjoyed it.

Doug Dvorak (09:19.414)
Mm.

Doug Dvorak (09:36.705)
Interesting. Interesting. You mentioned Arthur Ash and playing doubles with him and getting a call. I really admired Arthur. I’ve read a lot about him and you know, the ES the Arthur Ash ESPN awards and he is just a man of high talent, high caliber, breaking the color barrier. But what he said that I’ve taken over the decades as to how he dealt with stress

Coolness under pressure, a direct quote. Can you unpack some of your experiences with Arthur playing with him, Arthur the tennis player, Arthur the humanitarian individual?

Leonard Tanner (10:10.511)
yeah.

Leonard Tanner (10:14.186)
Well, one of the things when we first started playing together, you know, I told him I was getting nervous. I mean, here I am playing with a guy that I’ve only seen on TV and we’re playing against other guys that I’ve only seen on TV. And he goes, Don’t worry about being nervous. He said, Embrace it. Go for it and go. I love being nervous. So he turned it around completely. And that was one of the things and one of the old ways of getting over nervousness was to bring all your margins in and play up the middle, and then as you get confident,

Doug Dvorak (10:27.734)
Mm.

Leonard Tanner (10:43.581)
widen it back out. Arth was the coach of our Davis Cup, the captain of coach of our Davis Cup team. And I was playing a match against Australia against Peter Magnamira. And I think I was four in the world and he was five. But anyway, we were close. And I won the first two sets. And in the third set, I had breakpoint, breakpoint, breakpoint, breakpoint. Never broke him, lost my serve, lost a set. Same thing in the fourth. Now we’re going into the fifth. At one all

Magnemaro breaks my serve to go up two one. So now I’m behind. And Arthur goes, I’ve been watching you. You’ve been nervous and you’ve been playing careful. I want you now, with all your shots, go for the lines. Just unload a 162. But that’s what he would take the opposite position. If you’re nervous, go for more. And that’s the way I teach some of the kids that I’ve been teaching on the serve. I mean, if I’m having troubles on my serve, I go for more.

Doug Dvorak (11:24.694)
Mm.

Wow.

Doug Dvorak (11:41.806)
Go for more. I love that.

Leonard Tanner (11:42.246)
In yeah, I mean in the Australian, yeah, in the Australian I started out, I was watching it the other day on YouTube, and I started out the first game, I’m serving against VLOS on grass, which is supposed to be good for me. And first point, I dumped a volley in the net. I came in a four forehand volley easy and I dumped it into the net. Second point, double fault. Third point, double fault. And I am now looking at that and I’m going, This doesn’t look too good to start. But when I was in love forty, I served an ace.

fifteen forty, served an ace. I started going for more. And then we had a good point at thirty forty, but then I served two more bombs that he didn’t get back to win the first game. But that’s the way I played quite often was to rely on my serve to pull me out of a problem. yeah correct, yeah.

Doug Dvorak (12:28.334)
Play to win, don’t play not to lose. I love that because this is a successful podcast mission possible. I love what I just heard. Is that embracing the nervousness and going for more.

Leonard Tanner (12:41.816)
Go for more, go to win. I mean it if I look at a player who was a great player, but Andy Murray. In the first part of his career, he would have chances against you know, Federer, Nadal, Yokovic, he’d have chances against all those guys and then lose. But he had chances to win. Then he got Lendell, and all of a sudden he had chances to win and he closed it out. And Lendell knows how to win and knows how to finish.

Doug Dvorak (12:43.192)
Go to win.

Doug Dvorak (12:48.45)
Yes.

Leonard Tanner (13:10.638)
And Andy Murray changed and knew how to finish and he became a different player. And that’s the thing that we try to teach. I mean, I even teach or help out with a ladies league team. And one of the things that we try to tell them is you’ve got to beat the other person. You can’t at every level, if once their back is against the wall, they get a little bit better and they’re not gonna miss. They’re not gonna give it to you. So what you’ve got to do is follow through and beat

Doug Dvorak (13:36.504)
So as you are coming up and playing tennis as a youth adolescent before you went to college, who is your biggest influence on your development as a young player? Your dad or unpack that for me.

Leonard Tanner (13:50.017)
My dad was a big one, but the biggest one was my coach. In Chattanooga, and I lived on Lookout Mountain, which is a suburb of Chattanooga, we had Jerry Everett, Chris Everts’ uncle, had the tennis program for Chattanooga. And he was my coach from age seven to about age sixteen. And he had six in Chattanooga; we had no indoor courts. So you got bad weather for the winter.

Doug Dvorak (14:02.744)
Really? And he was your coach? I never knew

Wow.

Leonard Tanner (14:17.718)
He had sixteen nationally ranked juniors. How do you do that in Chattanooga? And so the Everett family is good because they’re good coaches. But so but when I got to be sixteen, he said, Roscoe, you need to get another coach because I’ve gotten you as far as I can. You need to go to the next level. And so at right at that point, my sister married a guy named Ramsey Earnhardt who went to Southern Cal. He won the NCAA doubles once with Osuna.

He’s a great servant vollier. So Ramsey married my sister and moved to Chattanooga and was coaching me how to servant volley and how to attack. And that’s where all that came from. And also in that year, from age fifteen to sixteen, I grew eight inches. So changed as a player. But that was one of the big changes for me, as I went from sort of a baseline guy that’s had nice strokes and all that to an attacker.

Doug Dvorak (15:03.862)
Wow.

Doug Dvorak (15:15.776)
Interesting. So you were famous for having one of the fastest serves in tennis history. How did you develop that weapon? Natural gift or time focus?

Leonard Tanner (15:25.469)
it’s partly a gift. I mean, when I was little, I was a little league baseball pitcher. And I I relate serving to pitching because it’s the same motion. Once I talked with Vic Braden, it is exactly the same motion. Throwing a football and a baseball is a serving motion. and you get your body into it, the release point for the ball is where your racket goes straight up and meets the toss.

Doug Dvorak (15:31.054)
Okay.

Leonard Tanner (15:51.626)
And so one of the things that he worked with me on even from when I was little was when you’re in the when you’re learning how to serve, he took me in the woods. I didn’t learn on a tennis court. So I didn’t have a ball. He put me under a tree and he said, okay, now hit that leaf. So he had me doing the service motion, hitting leaves. After a couple of weeks, we went to the court and he said, Now toss the ball where the leaf was. ” So I wasn’t placing the ball in the air and hoping to get it to a spot, did it?

Doug Dvorak (16:01.858)
Really.

Doug Dvorak (16:16.663)
Interesting.

Leonard Tanner (16:21.655)
I was laying it on a T in the air to serve. And that’s the key, that’s the real key to my serve. And one of the things that is another key is don’t look at the ball when you’re tossing it. Look at the spot where you’re trying toss it. It’s like throwing a dart. You don’t look at the dart out of your hand. You look at that bullseye. So it’s the same thing. So you look up where you’re trying toss it, you place it there, and if once you know you’re gonna do that, it’s hard because it’s with the wrong hand.

Doug Dvorak (16:37.729)
Interesting.

Leonard Tanner (16:52.138)
But once you do that, you feel free to swing. I mean, as a baseball batter, when a ball is on the T, after about the fifth swing, you feel like I can kill this thing. But if someone’s throwing you a ball, it’s difficult. And so what he was trying to teach me to do was place the ball where my racket goes, then I can swing however I want to. And that’s what yeah.

Doug Dvorak (17:14.936)
So as a pit I’m sorry, as a pitcher you saw the corollary between pitching, release point, and then serving. Then your coach walked you through a number of different exercises to take from your baseball and pitching career. So what I’ve seen a lot of data points, Roscoe, on what your sir fastest serve was. Clarify it. What was the highest clock serve that you ever had?

Leonard Tanner (17:27.412)
Yes.

Leonard Tanner (17:31.305)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Leonard Tanner (17:42.045)
One fifty three.

Doug Dvorak (17:43.646)
And last night at about midnight I’m watching Zverev and the McEnroe brothers say, one thirty eight, what a serve. You’re fifteen miles per hour faster than that. Wow.

Leonard Tanner (17:56.223)
Right. Yeah. But there’s been a couple of guys that have served faster than me. Andy Roddick served one at one fifty-five one time. and so but one of the things that I think is the difference. A lot of people ask me, Well, what if you had the modern day rackets and all that sort of stuff? Yeah. No, I don’t think so. What I learned from PDP days when we were making rackets, the bigger the head, the harder it is to make it move fast.

Doug Dvorak (18:11.392)
I was just thinking of that. Would that have helped with that technology?

Leonard Tanner (18:25.107)
Because the strings act like a sail and slow it down. So the PDP had a small head, goes to the air fast. had a silhouette with the s aluminum parts that but didn’t get anything to hold it back. So

Doug Dvorak (18:41.182)
Roscoe, let’s let’s hold. you were on freeze for a minute. Let’s go back to that. So Roscoe, tell us about the technology then and now. With the new technology would that appreciably increase your service speed?

Leonard Tanner (18:44.968)
Yeah. Okay. Okay.

Leonard Tanner (18:58.534)
I don’t think so. One of the reasons that I don’t think so is the racket heads are bigger today. And when the bigger head acts like a sail, the strings act like a sail and slow down the racket head, making it harder to go fast. So I think I might have been the same speed, but I don’t think I would be any faster because my rackets were quick. The PDP rackets were fast. and so I really don’t think that I would have been much faster.

And a funny thing was that serve that was 153 was in the finals of a tournament in Palm Springs, which is now the Indian Wells tournament. It was at Mission Hills back then. But I was playing Raul Ramirez in the finals. And he and I had had some real battles, and I didn’t like Ramirez all that much. But Dennis Ralston told me at the beginning of matches, always serve at 80%. He was my coach at that point.

I said, always serve at 80%. That way you have something more to give later on. If you serve it 100% at the beginning, you don’t have any more to give. So I thought I was serving at 80%. That was the first serve of the match. It was an ace, and he didn’t get it back. And actually, in that match, I won the first 16 points before I lost one. So I was up to four love before I lost a point. And that was the finals. But I think that everything was just clicking. It’s a lot of it is timing.

Doug Dvorak (20:14.07)
Wow.

Leonard Tanner (20:22.134)
I get more weight transfer, more of my body into the serve than just about anybody. I watch these guys today and if you get to the side and watch they don’t move forward at all. They’re strong and they can hit the ball hard, but they could hit it harder. That’s the way I look at it.

Doug Dvorak (20:40.204)
So who were the players in your era that were consistently able to handle your serve better than some others?

Leonard Tanner (20:48.379)
Connors. You know, I mean, one of the things with Jimmy, and we grew up the juniors together and all that, but one of the things with him, if you hit it where he was looking, I could have hit it 160 and it would have come back at 170. so I had to constantly be, like a baseball pitcher, fooling him, throwing it where he doesn’t want it to be. And so that was one of the big things with Jimmy. Borg was a great returner.

Another guy that most people don’t know is Jeannie Mayer. He had two hands on both sides. Sandy Mayer and I went to college together. Jeannie also went to Stanford, but not when I did. But he was a terrific doubles player, but he returned really well and it was difficult to read. but he wasn’t at the same level as Connors and some of those other kids. But Connors and Borg, like Roy Emerson once asked me, why do you serve so hard?

Doug Dvorak (21:22.188)
Never heard of.

Leonard Tanner (21:48.811)
against Borg and maybe get fifty five to sixty percent in. And I said, well, because against Borg, when I get fifty five to sixty percent in, I win ninety-five percent of the points. And if I dropped it up to where I could get up to sixty-five to seventy, I’d probably be losing fifty percent of the points because he did such great returns. So I had to go for it against him. With Jimmy, I couldn’t serve away from him.

If I wanted to win the point I w I needed to serve into his body and jam him so that he just had to block it back. But if I served it away and let him reach, it was coming back like a rocket.

Doug Dvorak (22:26.602)
Interesting. Let’s pause for a minute. I’ve got my studios right outside and they’re cutting the grass, but we’ll pause for a minute. Cool. This is fascinating. We’ll start in about two minutes here. Great, great job so far. We’re in Florida now?

Leonard Tanner (22:31.5)
Yeah. okay. No problem.

Leonard Tanner (22:40.802)
No problem, no problem.

I’m in Orlando, yes. I originally, yeah, I originally was in Vero Beach. and my wife and I at that time had a daughter named Lacey. And we were s my wife and I were splitting up. And I thought, well, if I move to Orlando, my daughter will be like two or three years old. If I move to Orlando, I’m gonna see her a lot because of that. So yeah.

Doug Dvorak (22:46.242)
That’s right.

Doug Dvorak (23:06.126)
Good thinking there, Osco.

Leonard Tanner (23:11.086)
So I moved to Orlando. Well, sure enough, she moved with me. And so, you know, I raised her from say three years old on, and right now she is a junior at Valparaizo University playing tennis. Yeah, she’s at Valpa. Yeah, and she’s playing on the tennis team. She’s actually she’s number one and the captain of the team. So she’s pleased with that and she’s playing great. She’s ha and she has fun. She she has a big

Doug Dvorak (23:23.49)
Valpo. Valpo’s a great school. Great school.

Leonard Tanner (23:40.329)
left-handed serve. And I don’t know where she got that. But at any rate, the coach, they just got a new coach in. And he was looking at all her different shots and different things and he wanted to make a couple changes with her forehand, which was needed. And then he said, okay, let’s look at your serve. And she said, No. And he said, Why won’t you let me look at your serve? He says, Because we’re not changing anything. And he went, well why? She goes, well my dad taught me my serve.

Doug Dvorak (23:58.367)
Ha ha ha.

Doug Dvorak (24:09.782)
Is that the strongest part of her game?

Leonard Tanner (24:10.164)
And she uses it. And the funny thing is, when it’s tight, it gets better. And which is a good sign. so I’m pleased with that. But she’s funny with it. She’ll leave, she’s left handed. She certainly has a huge left handed serve. And she serves about one nineteen, one twenty when she wants to. And so we were sitting though at one match when she was back twelve say twelve.

Doug Dvorak (24:32.374)
Mm.

Leonard Tanner (24:39.498)
And she’s playing a match. and we’re she’s you know up here in Orlando, and some people were sitting behind me, they didn’t know who I was, and they said, Look at that girl, she serves just like Roscoe Tanner, and she’d she’d served like a couple aces, and I couldn’t help it, I had to say something, and I said, Well, that’s because she’s his daughter, and the guy goes, How do you know that? I said, Because I’m her father.

Doug Dvorak (25:06.766)
Great story. Great story. We’re almost done here. Do you happen to know Agassi or s or Graf?

Leonard Tanner (25:09.661)
Yeah.

Leonard Tanner (25:18.141)
I don’t know Steffi. I’ve interviewed her a couple of times for ESPN. I did the some commentary over in somewhere in Europe and she won the tournament, so I interviewed her at the end. Andre I know a little bit. I mean I know him to say hi and that sort of stuff, but I don’t really I wouldn’t categorize him as we’re friends and that we’re not enemies.

Doug Dvorak (25:34.883)
Yeah, he was right. He has a place in Idaho where I used to have a place and I got to loosely know him and speak at his Andre Agassiz College Preparatory Academy. I’ll bring that up. It’s a fascinating story. He was on the downside of his career and then took a forty million dollar loan to build that and so anyway, okay, obviously Ebrand’s editing team, we were pausing for

Leonard Tanner (25:54.655)
Whoa.

Doug Dvorak (26:02.466)
three to five minutes because we had some background noise. We’re gonna start it up now. So

Doug Dvorak (26:10.072)
Three, two, one. Roscoe looking at today’s game, who reminds you most of yourself?

Leonard Tanner (26:18.441)
Well, one guy that does, but I wish that he did things a little bit differently is Ben Shelton. He has a huge serve, but I feel like he should serve volley more because with the serve that he has, he allows them to float it back and then he has to hit a big forehand let they float it back. So he’s constantly letting them restart the point. but his serve is gigantic. I love what he does. I just wish he used it a little bit more effectively.

So I think he’s won and then there’s a guy named and I may have his name wrong, but Vasharut or something like that. He has a very, very quick toss. You know, and the ball barely out of his hand bam. And so he’s got a big serve. And I’m looking at his left, he’s left handed also, and I’m looking at it and I’m going, This guy is pretty scary ’cause it’s hard to return. See on my serve the toss was in the same place.

every time. And as a result, that was like placing a baseball on a T. And so I could hit it anywhere, I could do any of the serves, whether it be kick, slice, flat, whatever, from the same place. So I didn’t give anything away. I think some of these guys today, and I was watching Ben, I guess it was yesterday, and he’s tossing the ball so far to the right. I didn’t notice that before. It seems like it’s just starting to happen.

But I would think he ought to move the toss back over to the left, but more in front of his arm. Because what I see is he’s serving hard and working hard, but he’s got cup marks all over his shoulder, which means something’s hurting. And so I would like to see that changed a little bit because it would make it more convenient for his arm. Because I mean he does, he serves huge, he’s a great talent, he seems like a really nice guy. so I’m a fan of his.

But I would like to change some things a little bit.

Doug Dvorak (28:16.236)
Interesting. So if I think back to your era and I look at some old clips, I see Connors not maybe not you, but drinking Coke, not having a nutritionist, a th mental coach, a strength coach, a masseuse, all the the to your point, the corporation of the the posse there. And then I remember, you know

Macnroe and Chrissy and Jimmy out discos. It just seemed like a totally different world and it seemed simpler and more fun relative today. I mean we always get nostalgic, but you know, those big personalities having fun, you know, the Mac and Row the the personalities. There seem Chrissy, Martina, you, Jimmy, Arthur, it it seemed like just a a

Obviously a different time, but funner.

Leonard Tanner (29:15.002)
Well, I’m not totally sure that their personality isn’t great. You just don’t get to see it. But one of the things you were to mention in Coca-Cola ’cause Chattanooga was where the first bottling plant was for Coca-Cola. so I grew up on Coca Cola and yes. yeah. Cleveland, Cleveland, Tennessee, just up the road. But I was I w when I played

Doug Dvorak (29:32.29)
Did you grow up on Moon Pies too? ‘Cause isn’t that the place of Yep.

Leonard Tanner (29:42.265)
The way I played it was because most of the time on the court we had water, like Avion or Perry or whatever, and then Coke. And the way I played it was when it got down in the third set with about three games to go, I went to the Coke. Because it gives you energy for that, and then you’re gonna crash. But if you time it just right, you’ll get through the set and finish. And so I was doing that a ton. Although one time

Doug Dvorak (29:58.552)
Yeah.

Leonard Tanner (30:11.702)
I was in Jakarta and on the center court and all they had was Evian bottles and Coca-Cola. And I remember being in my hotel looking out the window and I saw a river. And upstream, people were going to the bathroom. Downstream, they were washing. I’m just going, ooh. So now I’m on the court and I’m sitting there and I’m looking at Evian bottles. And we’re going, I don’t trust it.

Leonard Tanner (30:40.375)
So I drank Coca-Cola the whole time because Coke kills everything, it’s fine. And so after the match, I’m in the car leaving the stadium. The maintenance guys are refilling the Evian bottles out of a hose. I’m just like, I am so lucky I didn’t do that. But it was I mean it was a different world of things you had to worry about back then. Food was a big deal, you you didn’t

Doug Dvorak (30:55.145)
no.

Leonard Tanner (31:08.801)
mean you at the hotel even if you’d have steaks, you know, and you wouldn’t have any ice. You know, I mean when you traveled around to different places you just didn’t trust it. And you couldn’t. But if you did, you would be out of the tournament shortly. So it was interesting, but it was a great time to travel the world and learn about traveling the world by Arthur Ash. What better way?

Doug Dvorak (31:35.342)
Yeah. So you’re at the height of your career at the Australian Open in nineteen seventy seven, you win it, and it was a career defining moment. What do you remember most about that tournament?

Leonard Tanner (31:48.703)
The biggest thing I remember was Arthur. We were gonna play doubles in that tournament, but he had that bone spur on his heel, so he had to pull out. But he stuck around to take pictures for his book, Portrait in Motion. But he was coaching me, because that’s what doubles partners did back then. And so all the way to the finals, he’s helping me, you know, through a major tournament. And one of the things about being a photographer.

He got to sit right behind where I do on the court. Whereas if he was a coach, he had to be up in the stadium someplace way away. So he was right behind me, which was comforting. He didn’t say all that much or do all that much, but he just was right there. And but he’s the one that instilled in me, just keep going for it. You know, you gotta finish it. Because I ended up winning that match six three, six three, six three, and that’s because I was relentless.

I kept going and

Doug Dvorak (32:48.91)
How did that championship change your life and career?

Leonard Tanner (32:51.86)
Well, it gave me a major title fairly early in my career. I was nineteen seventy seven, so I was twenty-six. But I turned pro at twenty-two, so it was fairly early in my career. But then when I would go to play Wimbledon, French I wasn’t very good at. but when I went to play Wimbledon or the US Open, I had that behind me.

Doug Dvorak (32:55.64)
How old were you?

Leonard Tanner (33:20.264)
So you have a certain amount of confidence. And when I went to Wimbledon, every time I went to Wimbledon, I wasn’t thinking, can I win a match? I was looking at the tournament. You know, I wasn’t seated number one or anything like that, but I I was going. I was going for it. And I ended up getting twice to the semis of Wimbledon and once to the finals. So I had a good record there. And I actually had a pretty good record at the US Open. But it was it was just I walked in

Doug Dvorak (33:42.51)
Yeah.

Leonard Tanner (33:49.95)
feeling like one of the players that could win. You know, they’re

Doug Dvorak (33:53.103)
So what lessons are Roscoe, stop, three, two, one. Roscoe, what lessons from that victory still apply to life for you today?

Leonard Tanner (34:05.769)
I wish they applied more. no, I think one thing was to go for it.

Doug Dvorak (34:07.48)
Yeah.

Leonard Tanner (34:15.134)
You know, when you walk on the court, when I walked on the court any time, I believed that if I did what I can do, not better than what I can do, but if I did what I can do, I would win. I didn’t think of I can win, I think of I would win. If I served the way I did, volley the way I could, and just a couple of games each set return the way I could, I would win. And so it wasn’t like, I hope I can. I was planning on it.

And I remember the Palm Springs tournament. I’d won it one year and the next year I came back and I was seated fourth. And they said, Roscoe, you’re seated fourth. Are you a little unhappy or last year’s winner? I said, No, look who’s in front of me. I said it was Connors and MacEnroe and Borg. I said, How can I that’s just fine? And I said, I said, I may not even have to play them. You know, they gotta get there too, or I might not get there. It ended up

I won the tournament again and guess what? I didn’t play them. They didn’t make it.

Doug Dvorak (35:17.838)
So you obviously are drilling, you’re focused on fitness, the physicality, the physical component. Did you give any thought and training to the mental component of unpack that for us, would ya?

Leonard Tanner (35:33.692)
Tons. Tons of it. When I went to Stanford, Dick Gould worked a ton on the mental component. And he always had us ready for the big matches. We might lose a run-of-the-mill match, but when it came down to the Pacquia Championships or the NCAAs, we were there. And he instilled that in us. Although the first thing when I was sitting in the stands with Dick, when I just got to Stanford as a freshman,

I asked him how many times do we play UCLA and how many times do we play Southern Cal? Because they’re the two big teams. And he said, Well, we play one of them twice and one of them three times. And I said, That doesn’t make sense to me. Why do we play one of them three times? And he said, Well, we play them both home and home. Then we played one of them in the semifinals of the Pack 8. We lose and we play Washington for third and fourth. And I looked at him and I said, Do we have to lose? And he said he’d never thought about that. But

Doug Dvorak (36:28.238)
Mm-hmm.

Leonard Tanner (36:31.097)
My sophomore year, we beat all. And that was the freshman that came in with me and the attitude that was brought to the team. We were out to beat everybody. We didn’t care who they were. And that’s the way I was brought. And that one of the things that’s very lucky for me was playing Arthur. Playing with Arthur. I mean, here he is number one in the world, and I’m with him. He’s on my side.

Doug Dvorak (36:59.224)
Right.

Leonard Tanner (36:59.47)
And where and every day I’m practicing with him, I’m practicing with Laver, I’m practicing with Rosewell, Newcomb, Roach. It was unbelievable. I mean, every one of my practices was with the best in the world. And pretty soon you begin to think, well I belong here. And so I came out on the court planning on winning.

Doug Dvorak (37:21.198)
Excellent. Let’s talk about rivalries and great opponents. You competed against some of the most incredible players of your era. Who is the toughest opponent you ever faced?

Leonard Tanner (37:32.696)
Well, I mean you’d have to say Borg. Because he’s just a wall. He doesn’t have to beat him. You know, he doesn’t have bad days. And what people don’t realize is he had a big serve. His first serve was a big serve. Second serve he just got it in play, because that’s what he wanted to do. But he could serve aces with his first serve. So he was tough. I mean another guy is Connors.

Doug Dvorak (37:35.938)
Why?

Leonard Tanner (38:01.817)
Because he’s relentless. He fights until the last ball. He goes all the way through. McEnroe. You know, there’s a lot going on when you play him or nastasi. So you have to. One psychologist that was a friend or a father of a friend of mine from the juniors said that when they start pulling that stuff, they’re doing that because they don’t think they can beat you without it. Which then immediately makes you feel good. You know, do some more.

Doug Dvorak (38:25.439)
Mm.

Doug Dvorak (38:29.015)
Right.

Leonard Tanner (38:30.936)
You know, but then also when I first turned pro, I mean, I played against Labor. I played against Rosewall. And I’ll never forget I was in Charlotte, North Carolina, old Providence Racket Club, it’s Claycourts, and I’m practicing with Ken Rosewall.

And he is practicing hitting backhands, he’s hit an underspin, hitting backhands down the line that clip the net for lead cords. He’s practicing it and he’s doing it. So then later on that tournament I played him in the semis, I came in on his backhand he hit a let cord over my racket and I’m going. That wasn’t luck. It was you know, but so it’s it’s just those guys I mean and you got Newcomb is one of the toughest mentally of anybody. I mean he had some

Doug Dvorak (39:07.118)
Ha ha.

Leonard Tanner (39:18.302)
Areas where you could attack him. But he was definitely tough out there, very tough.

Doug Dvorak (39:25.528)
So, Roscoe, what made the era of the seventies and eighties so special for tennis fans?

Leonard Tanner (39:31.851)
We were available. They could get close to us. I mean, if we might be after the tournament, let’s just say it’s the US Open. And they at Forest Hills they had that patio that’s right beside the courts. We might be out there eating lunch. And people that are spectators can walk up to you and talk. And so I think accessibility of players is huge. They’re not accessible anymore.

They kinda can’t be. It’s too bad, but they can’t be. And also, every fan did not have an iPhone to post your picture everywhere you did went. And so yeah, so there’s no privacy now for those guys. But we didn’t worry about privacy. Also, the reporters back then, Rex Bellamy, Lance Tin Gay, Richard, they’re all they wrote about the tennis.

Doug Dvorak (40:10.382)
That’s true.

Yeah, it was a different world.

Leonard Tanner (40:32.618)
They didn’t write about that if we went out dancing, they didn’t write about it. They just wrote about the tennis. And because they knew if they didn’t write about the tennis or if they wrote about the other stuff, then they wouldn’t get to go anymore. But so they really they were one of the guys and they could but they really covered the tennis well and just covered the tennis. seems like some of the reporters today

Doug Dvorak (40:32.769)
Interesting.

Doug Dvorak (40:47.694)
Right.

Leonard Tanner (41:01.94)
are trying to make their name off of other stuff.

Doug Dvorak (41:04.558)
Right. So Rosco, was there a match you lost that taught you more than any match you won?

Leonard Tanner (41:12.755)
Yeah, there’s one there’s actually one match in my whole career that really bothers me, and that’s the semifinals. I had beaten Borg in the quarters of the seventy nine US Open. And then I’m in the semifinals against Vetas Garolitis.

I win the first two sets. I’m up two sets to love. And I have break points to be up a break in the third. I lose and I ended up losing in five. And I feel like I should have closed that match out. And at that point, MacEnroe hadn’t done anything. So it wasn’t like we were afraid of McEnroe. I mean, but he was a great player, and so meeting him in the finals is no sure thing. But

I felt very much like I lost the match against Vitas. He didn’t beat me, I lost it. And that’s the only match in my career that I feel that way. When I lost to Borg in the finals of Wimbledon, he beat me. He came up with the shots at the right time. There’s a couple of shots I would have changed, but overall he beat me. It’s okay.

Doug Dvorak (42:18.158)
Interesting. So when you walk out onto the world stage at Wimbledon, the US Open, the Australian Open, can you sort of describe that pressure, that experience, all eyes on you?

Leonard Tanner (42:35.558)
yeah. I mean when I was playing Wimbledon, for example, you walk out on that court, walked out for the finals. And back then you used to walk to the service line, turn around and bow to royalty. And Lee Leo, the little locker room attendant, took my rackets out on the court. So I wasn’t carrying rackets or anything, but you turn around and bow. And I remember looking down at the blades of grass and going, ooh.

We are now entering history. It can be good, it can be bad, it can even be horrible. You know, you can get crushed. And I was going, I wonder what’s going to happen today. And you don’t know. But then I end up winning the first set. Now I’m off and running. first set was a tiebreaker, and I won it with a topspin lob, which I’d never hit before, but Dennis Rawson had been working with me on it, and he hit it in the tiebreaker that won the set. But

The whole thing, Wimbledon, Wimbledon has an aura about it that nowhere else does. the thing about I look at it, there’s like three or four venues that are like that. That you can walk into them even when the event’s not on. The Indianapolis five hundred, Kentucky Derby, the Masters, and Wimbledon. Even when the event’s not on.

You can feel it. And the funny thing is, most of them are painted green. I don’t know. But that’s what that’s historically what Wimbledon has always been. But even with all the changes that the modernizing they do now, when you walk in center court inside looks the same. It hasn’t changed.

Doug Dvorak (44:11.99)
Why is that?

Doug Dvorak (44:17.294)
Right.

Doug Dvorak (44:24.91)
Interesting. So how did you handle pressure before major matches?

Leonard Tanner (44:32.634)
Well, when I went to high school, I went to a school called Baylor in Chattanooga. And one of the things we were a very good athletic school. We were a good academic as a private school, but we were also very good in athletics. And we had an attitude that we’re walking on the court to win. And if we didn’t win, okay, we gave it all we had. Now we back up, we practice, figure out why we didn’t win, and go to win the next time. And so

I got that attitude. because when I was in the juniors I didn’t always win. And I didn’t always win in the pros. But when I lost, I didn’t go into a tailspin about it. Okay, let’s pick ourselves up, let’s practice hard, figure out why, and let’s go for the next one. And that was where I think I was pretty fortunate that I didn’t have any tail spins, you know, where long droughts or anything like that. Most of the time the way I scheduled myself.

I played two weeks, then rest a week. But first off I put Wimbledon on the schedule, then I put US Open on the schedule, and what do I gotta do to do the best I can at those two events? And then two tournaments off, two tournaments off. Because I figured and whether it’s right or wrong, I figured that out of two tournaments, one of them I’m gonna do well. And I calculated on the ranking system, when you play two,

Doug Dvorak (45:53.526)
Mm.

Leonard Tanner (46:00.939)
If you lose first round and then win the tournament, the next tournament, that’s better than making the quarterfinals twice. Yeah, you get more points, you get more prize money, everything. Now, I don’t know if it’s still the same, but it was then. And so that was my deal. So if I lost in the first round of the first one, I said, so what? I got the next one. And that was pretty good. Now, one of the things that’s funny is because I wasn’t known as a clay court player at all. But I did win two clay court events.

Doug Dvorak (46:08.515)
Really?

Leonard Tanner (46:31.077)
and one of the things though in the French, I was looking at the results and they showed a match that I had against Bork in Ike seventy eight. When it’s when he won the tournament just beating the stew out of everybody. He beat Velas like one one and two in the finals. I played him in the round of sixteen. My score was six four six four seven six.

Doug Dvorak (46:56.046)
Wow.

Leonard Tanner (46:56.861)
I was the only player to get that many games in the whole tournament. So I figure I’m runner up. But it was like yeah, I played really well against him. I had a game that he didn’t like because I wouldn’t play long rallies. There was no point. The way I looked at it, if I play long rallies, I’m gonna look pretty, I’m gonna have nice, nice percentages and all that, but I’m gonna get killed. So why not just take chances all over the court, attack, attack, attack.

And maybe you have a chance. And so I got close to him. Didn’t I mean I still lost three straight sets, but one of was a tiebreaker and the others were six four. So pretty good. I’m pretty happy with that.

Doug Dvorak (47:36.609)
Interesting. So what I heard here and one of the common threads about other pro athletes and high performers in a variety of different industries, careers, disciplines, is amnesia. Get amnesia quickly. Don’t focus on the wrong. Focus, be in the present and forget. That’s really interesting. What advice would you give someone who struggles with confidence?

Leonard Tanner (48:05.854)
Well, one thing in your practices, I mean don’t just practice your weakness, practice your strength too. And when you hit a good shot, notice. Yeah, that was good. And do it again. And do it again. And when you’re out on the court, if you hit a bad shot, don’t say to yourself, no. Just reset. The good players are constantly resetting every point. Reset, reset. And so when they miss.

Doug Dvorak (48:26.68)
Reset.

Leonard Tanner (48:34.184)
reset doesn’t mean I’m gonna miss the next one. And I think that’s a big deal if you don’t because if you don’t, then you start thinking, gosh, I can’t hit back ends today. Well then you sure enough you’re not gonna hit backhands today. So that’s that’s the thing.

Doug Dvorak (48:51.618)
What role did discipline play in your success?

Leonard Tanner (48:56.402)
When I first started practicing and when Dennis Ralston was coaching me, I had a bad temper in practice. My nickname Ray Moore gave me the nickname Short Fuse. And the thing was, I’d get mad in practice. And Dennis said, you can’t do that. He said, you do not play better when you get mad. MacEnroe, on the other hand, plays better when he gets mad. Poncho Gonzalez plays better when he gets mad. I don’t.

Doug Dvorak (49:09.058)
Ha ha.

Leonard Tanner (49:25.349)
And so he said, We’ve got to practice not getting mad, letting it go. And so we practiced that and practiced it. Because if you don’t practice it, you’re not going to do it in a match. You know, when push comes to shove, you’re going to explode. And so I worked and worked and worked on that and got to where I was not just practicing forehands and backhands, but discipline.

Doug Dvorak (49:49.45)
Interesting. So what do today’s players do better than your generation?

Leonard Tanner (49:56.046)
Well, I think one of the things they train better. I mean that the off the court stuff they do is very high level. I mean and you look at them, they’re in pretty good shape. The one thing that I wonder about is when they say, Well, they’ve got to stand so far back to return to the surf because of the speed of the serves. Well look back at the speed of the serves when I was playing.

They were faster. They were faster than these guys. So that doesn’t hold water to me. I think it’s the way they swing. I can’t if I stood back that far, I don’t think my return would reach the court. but it’s I see them when someone’s swinging a serve wide, they’re having to run 30 feet to get to it. If they were up on the line, they’d have to move five feet. So

They do better in terms of conditioning and training and the different things that they need to do and probably food wise. I think they have more knowledge than we had. I remember Gonzalez when I started working with him, he said, Nope, every night you gotta have a steak and a potato. That was my dinner. And then you go a little while later and they say, No, no steak and potato, you gotta have pasta. Yeah. Yeah.

Doug Dvorak (51:20.504)
Carbload.

Leonard Tanner (51:22.168)
and all this different stuff. And so the knowledge moves around. but I think there’s a heck of a lot more knowledge about how to be in better shape than when I was playing. And also stretching. We didn’t stretch at all. You know, I mean Arthur and I went to Tokyo we went to see Henry Hines. And Henry Hines was

The track star, long jumper, but he started training us and teaching us how to stretch. Nobody on the tour stretched. The only people that stretched on the tour were the ones that were injured. So we didn’t want that. So we just got started stretching. He started teaching us a regime to do before every match. The same thing in order. He said it’s a little bit like a racehorse. You do all this and it trains your body and now your body’s ready to go.

Doug Dvorak (52:02.189)
Ha ha.

Leonard Tanner (52:16.856)
And so we started learning that and it made a big difference. I mean in terms of our quickness and being able to get to balls and things like that. We helped Arthur and I a great deal. The one thing that he did not know how to do, he could get us to the area of the ball, but he couldn’t swing. So Henry we had a couple hitting the ball with the speed that he taught us.

Doug Dvorak (52:31.704)
Mm-hmm.

Doug Dvorak (52:37.176)
So what aspects of the old game have been lost in today’s tennis?

Leonard Tanner (52:43.206)
Problem solving.

They do the self they’ll do the same thing over and over and over and go down with the ship. You know, we learned to change. Gonzalez learned to change. Some of the things that they talk about now with analytics, he just knew. You know, he said to me, Roscoe, tennis is all about time. And I looked at him like, what the heck are you talking about? And he said, It’s all about time when the ball is on the side of the net longer than your side of the net.

You win. And he’s absolutely right. You know, it’s that now analytics says yeah, he was right. Well, he just knew it. And that just means if you go to the net, you’re in an advantageous position. Now the other thing that he taught me was how to play boar.

Doug Dvorak (53:26.178)
He just knew it.

Leonard Tanner (53:37.011)
And it worked. He said don’t hit approach shots deep because that’s where he is. Hit him short. Knock him down like a bunt. Don’t hit a drop shot, but hit a driving low ball to the service line and make it stay underneath his knees. Now he’s running forward because I pulled him out of his hole back there. I’m closing in on the net hard. He can’t hit it hard. Players don’t lob when they’re running full speed forward.

So he hits it to me and then I volley it off angled to the other side. Don’t volley deep, I angle it to the other side. I’ve created the situation that works for me. And it still works. If you watch some of these guys, when they hit volleys deep to the baseline, the other guy gets it and rips it. But if they volley that sideways angled off, they win the point. And so that’s that’s one of the things I think there’s there’s things that the guys from the past

Doug Dvorak (54:28.75)
Interesting.

Leonard Tanner (54:36.246)
Just kind of knew. Now it’s we gotta teach them by telling them, you know, you gotta do sixty-five percent of this, you know, and all that sort of stuff. I didn’t want to know that. I remember I was at the US Open and they had a big scoreboard that had all the percentages of all the different things you were doing on that. And I looked up and I saw that my per serf first served percentage was like 51%. But I was ahead six three five or six three six two.

But I thought, no, I gotta get that percentage up. So I took something off my first serve, immediately lost my servant, got down a break in the third. And I went, What am I doing? So I went back to my old way and ended up winning six three. But it’s like you when you think too much about those percentages, you forget what you do. And so that’s it.

Doug Dvorak (55:23.246)
Right. Right.

Hey, who are some of you, excuse me, three, two, one. Roscoe, who are some of your favorite players and why?

Leonard Tanner (55:34.197)
Well Arthur obviously was one. I mean what a guy. Another guy that I really loved playing, we played a few doubles tournaments was Charlie Passerell. like my dog’s. He’ll stop. This dog is named Ace, but he’s somebody’s outside my door. Hold on, I’ll get him. He’ll stop him. Let me just make him stop. Ace. Ace. Ace. No.

Doug Dvorak (55:43.81)
Nope. That’s okay. Sure.

Doug Dvorak (55:52.312)
That’s okay. Yeah.

Doug Dvorak (55:56.611)
Sure. Stop three two one.

Leonard Tanner (56:05.078)
But

Leonard Tanner (56:16.639)
Somebody’s walking by with a big German shepherd. Okay. Now let’s see. I was playing d okay, three two, yeah.

Doug Dvorak (56:18.892)
No problem.

Doug Dvorak (56:24.394)
Okay. Three, three, two, one. you had mentioned some of your favorite players, Arthur Ash and then who else?

Leonard Tanner (56:33.672)
Charlie Charlie Pasarell was one of my favorites. We had so much fun playing doubles together and Ray Moore also. But with Charlie, we were in a tournament in Fort Worth. And we’ve won some doubles matches. We were not really great doubles players. We were singles players, but we did well in doubles. And we’re getting ready, I think it’s the semis, or it may have even been the finals, we’re getting ready to play Newcomb and Roach. And we’re sitting in the locker room and we said, We have no chance.

I mean, we can’t beat these guys playing straight up doubles. And so he said, Let’s try this. Let’s hit every ball as hard as we can up the middle. Now, if we’re a little bit early, it goes cross quarter, we’re a little bit late, it goes down the line, but let’s hit everything up the middle as hard as we can. We did that and we won. But do you know how many balls we hit up the middle? Zero. We didn’t hit one ball where we were aiming, but

Doug Dvorak (57:26.542)
Ha ha ha.

Leonard Tanner (57:31.794)
We were positively hitting the ball. So that was a big deal.

Doug Dvorak (57:35.79)
Excellent. So let’s morph as we close out to life beyond tennis. What has tennis taught you about life?

Leonard Tanner (57:44.71)
One of the things that tennis gives you is fight.

You know, you hang in there. Now, I did I made some mistakes in my life. luckily you know, I’ve gotten past those and some great things are happening now, especially with my kids. But sometimes you have to learn to let it go. I was always used to I came up with the attitude is I can do it. And so if somebody asks me for something, I’m a pleaser. Okay, I’ll do it. Well that

is not always the right answer. And so I’ve learned that sometimes you gotta just say, can’t.

Doug Dvorak (58:29.006)
Interesting. How has your definition of success evolved over the years?

Leonard Tanner (58:35.612)
It’s moved from different things. But I think right now success is doing a lot of the things that I’m doing. actually getting asked to talk on your podcast is success. but I’m doing a whole lot of different things teaching tennis. People are asking me about my tennis, asking me about the serve. I enjoy it. In other words, success is that I’ve brought I’ve got to an area

in the game in the world of tennis where I did well. And now a lot of other things are going well also. So I’m very pleased.

Doug Dvorak (59:17.538)
What accomplishments are you most proud of outside of tennis? I think your daughter is playing number one at Valparaiso University. What else?

Leonard Tanner (59:26.777)
I have another daughter, Tamara, that played at Loyola out in out in LA. And she was on the team. She’s a great doubles player. She’s not playing anymore. But she was a great doubles player. I have all of my daughters have done really well. one of them is in Washington, DC. She works for a firm that helps do lobbying, and she’s been very successful. Another one is an actress.

And she’s done really well. But she also helps put together films and put together movies or plays and all that kind of stuff. So another one worked for IMG. so all of it I’m pretty cloud about how they’re all doing. I think it’s really good, yeah.

Doug Dvorak (01:00:12.75)
That’s great. What legacy would you like to leave behind?

Leonard Tanner (01:00:21.294)
That’s just how proud I am of my daughters.

Doug Dvorak (01:00:27.31)
That says it all. That says it all. Roscoe, so we’re now to one of my favorite parts as we close out. Ten rapid fire questions. One word or a short phrase. Are you ready? Okay, biggest serve you ever faced.

Leonard Tanner (01:00:28.91)
Yeah. Yeah.

Leonard Tanner (01:00:38.809)
Yes.

Leonard Tanner (01:00:43.898)
Colin Dibley.

Doug Dvorak (01:00:45.176)
Hardest court surface to win on.

Doug Dvorak (01:00:49.858)
Most intimidating opponent.

Leonard Tanner (01:00:53.69)
Bor.

Doug Dvorak (01:00:54.882)
Favorite tournament in the world?

Leonard Tanner (01:00:57.498)
Well.

Doug Dvorak (01:00:58.58)
One word that describes Bjorn Borg.

Leonard Tanner (01:01:03.844)
Hard to play. one word. Jerk. No, he’s not a No, it’s just he is when he plays it’s just tennis.

Doug Dvorak (01:01:07.726)
Ha ha ha ha.

Doug Dvorak (01:01:16.874)
One word that describes Jimmy Connors.

Leonard Tanner (01:01:20.6)
Tenacious.

Doug Dvorak (01:01:21.56)
Greatest tennis player of all time.

Leonard Tanner (01:01:23.778)
Poncho Gonzalez.

Doug Dvorak (01:01:25.11)
If you could play one match again, which would it be?

Leonard Tanner (01:01:28.972)
Wimbledon final.

Doug Dvorak (01:01:30.594)
Best piece of advice you’ve ever received.

Leonard Tanner (01:01:37.538)
Don’t get mad.

Doug Dvorak (01:01:39.426)
Finish this sentence mission possible is possible.

Leonard Tanner (01:01:45.324)
Winning Wimbledon.

Doug Dvorak (01:01:46.83)
Excellent. Boy, an hour plus has flown. My guest has been a tennis great and all-around great human being, Roscoe Tanner. Roscoe, I know you’re involved in coaching and you’ve got a couple books out. How can people get a hold of you?

Leonard Tanner (01:02:05.484)
Well, you can go to I have a website that’s roscotanner tennis dot com. And you can go there if you contact my group there, they’ll get a hold of me. that’s the best way. You know, I would ’cause you to also try to call me, I have my phone so that if I don’t know you it sends you to voicemail right away, so I’d never see it. But I think the best way is through my website. It’s roscotanner tennis dot com.

Doug Dvorak (01:02:35.053)
And you’re st and you’re still involved in coaching and focusing on service and giving back to younger people. So that’s great. Check us out. Thank you, Roscoe. It’s been a high honor and privilege. Check us out at missionpossible.biz and carpe diem. Hold on a second. I need you to just stay on while we process this.

Leonard Tanner (01:02:35.138)
Pretty sure that’s it.

Yes.

Leonard Tanner (01:02:51.616)
Okay, thank you.